June 2007
Elsewhere on the WebVictor Davis Hanson’s Private Papers Victor Davis Hanson Archive on National Review OnlineTour![]() Books
A War Like No Other How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War
by Victor Hanson
Amazon.com’s Best of 2001 Many theories have been offered regarding why Western culture has spread so successfully across the world, with arguments ranging from genetics to superior technology to the creation of enlightened economic, moral, and political systems. In Carnage and Culture, military historian Victor Hanson takes all of these factors into account in making a bold, and sure to be controversial, argument: Westerners are more effective killers.
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson, John Keegan Hanson, for those who somehow have missed him until now, is a professor of Classics at California State and also is a part time farmer, both of which have contributed to his writing as a military historian. As a classicist, Hanson is well versed in the sources in their original Greek, and as a farmer he understands how agriculture affected the experience of the Greeks at war.
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
Hanson relates the life stories of his farmer neighbors, writing that their way of life will likely soon disappear, thanks in part to a federal system of agricultural subsidies that favors large-scale, industrial farm corporations over individual “yeomen.” This is a sobering and eye-opening book. by Victor Davis Hanson On first glance, The Soul of Battle appears to be three different books: biographies of two well-known generals—Sherman and Patton—and one who is virtually unknown today, the ancient Greek leader Epaminondas. Yet Victor Davis Hanson, a classics professor and author of The Western Way of War, makes a compelling connection between these three men. They were “eccentrics, considered unbalanced or worse by their own superiors” who led democratic armies on missions of freedom.
by Robert B. Strassler (Editor), Victor Davis Hanson (Introduction)
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June 21, 2007 1:36 PM
World Gone ByThe Crazed Fringe When I was growing in rural California in the 1950s and 1960s, my FDR parents winced at the nut right-wing fringe. This was, remember, the era of bulk mailings on pink paper, crazy “Did you know?” unsollicted newsletters detailing the names of local and national communists, usually sent from strange addresses in the Sierra Nevada foothills. At seven and eight, we used to pick them up from the garbage and ask our parents, “Hey, Mom, are Lucy and Ricky really communists?” My cattleman uncle Tango used to stop by with John Birch literature, warning us about the impending fluoride conspiracy to make us all impotent. The boy-scout troop leader would stop by, trying to sell us his version of a metal bomb shelter (a septic tank with hatches), and preached how we could win a nuclear war against Castro et al. A neighbor used to preach to us that Caesar Chavez was employed by the KGB, and that the UFW was controlled by Moscow. The local paper’s op-eds still fought over Social Security and the Minimum Wage as equivalent to the Revolution of 1917. And always were the “hate the Jews” subtexts and allusions, alleging some sort of world banking conspiracy to rob us white rural folk who worked hard to send our peaches eastward only to have them hijacked and resold at ten times what they gave us by long-nosed crooks “on the East Coast”. You get the picture—the Right had a problem with its so-called wing nuts. But over the years, conservatism came to terms with civil rights and anti-Semitism. Free markets, not socialism, enriched America and brought a level of affluence undreamed of it to the poor. (When I was seven, outhouses and unpaved roads were common in West Selma; today in the same neighborhood you see SUVS, new tract houses, and I-pods and blue teeth in the ears of illegal aliens.). And so the Klan, Birchers, and other assorted embarrassments were peeled off. The left in the 1940s and 1950s had likewise gotten rid of its communist wing, and ostracized its fellow travelers. Henry Wallace was taken off the ticket. Dean Acheson and George Kennan had made liberal anti-communism logical rather than paradoxical. But now the Left, still going on the fumes of the 1960s, has the greater problem with its extremists. Of course, the “base” can attack Bush on immigration, gay marriage, etc. but not from a position of sheer lunacy. The same is not true of the netroots or the Cindy Sheen/Michael Moore wing on the Left. They openly praise our enemies, whether in Syria or Iraq (“Minutemen”). They prefer the unfree world of Chavez and Castro to our own. And their language and methodology are as uncouth and repulsive as were the old tactics of the Birch Society. I don’t think the Democratic Party will ever govern successfully until it does to its crazed extreme Left what the Republicans once did to the wacko far right. Collate what Sens. Boxer, Durban, Kennedy, Reid, or Howard Dean, or the Hollywood elite have said since 9/11 and you can see the practical problem in contemporary liberalism: anywhere, at any time, a Democratic liberal is apt to slur the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, declare a war lost even as it is being fought, praise a dictator, travel to a police state to conduct freelance diplomacy, or—Jimmy Carter like—compliment terrorists and killers. In short, even in the cynical sense, Dems need a series of staged Sister Soulja moments. In about an hour he pulled in nine rainbows, 12-14 inches, I four. But here was the difference. In the 1960s my father sent us down to the lake or stream for “lunch” or “dinner”—that is, to bring back fish for all to eat. So I kept my four and had them for both lunch and dinner. My 24-year-old son? Appalled at the idea. With consummate skill and humanity, he carefully took the hooks out of all nine fish he caught, sometimes from deep down the throat and requiring some surgical skill. And he was worried when one floated on its side for about 5 minutes before swimming off—and was nearly sick that he had killed it. I was wondering whether his humanity was predicated on the notion of not hurting animal kind, or the fact that food was now so cheap and accessible that fishing had become a sport not a mechanism to ensure a meal. In any case, I felt a little greedy or worse, keeping the trout, and he seemed embarrassed, if not angry at my possessiveness. It’s a different world—reminded of that also by his sister (20) when I forgot to recycle a single Pepsi can, and put it with the regular trash. For my daughter that was worse than a mortal sin. Gazitis Reading a zillion theories on Gaza, all arguing that the Hamas take over is awful, or of no importance, or actually encouraging, etc. with just as many ideas how to deal with Gazastan. What is odd is the eagerness with which the West is embracing the Palestinian Authority, as if its own terrorism was always only a reluctant resort to gain fides in competition with a more savage Hamas. And thus Arafat’s epigonoi are suddenly freed from such sinister influences, and have become “moderates” who can be enticed by Western largess into becoming something like Dubai or Oman. Good luck. Any examination of the multimillionaire spoiled brat Bin-Laden, or the aristocratic and snobbish Egyptian Dr. Zawahiri, or the other middle-class 9/11 killers might suggest that poverty is no requisite for jihadism. In fact, most of the worst of the this very sad bunch are affluent and have had exposure to the Western affluence and liberality. True, the miasma on the West Bank contributes to the attractiveness of terrorism there, but it is not the catalyst (otherwise suicide bombers would be sprouting up in Africa, Asia, and Latin America), and thus its elimination won’t end the desire to destroy Israel. One should read about the life of Sayyid Qutb, intellectual architect of the Muslim Brotherhood that we now apparently wish to embrace. He hated the very thought of Jews, though he had seen few if any in Egypt, and was only to encounter them in any real number in America. This middle-class Egyptian—subsidized generously by his own government, treated well and embraced by Americans—grew to detest the West for its liberality, its equality of the sexes, its material wealth, its friendship with the Jews. In other words, his wretched life reminds us that envy, jealousy, anger at lost stature, these primordial emotions fuel jihadism. They may be enhanced by general misery, acerbated by statist failures and authoritarian governments, but ultimately the nihilist rages are attributable to the lethal mix of Middle East tribalism and Islam’s utter failure to account for and live with modernity. Thinking that radical Islam will soften itself or evolve is analogous to a victorious Confederacy voluntarily ending slavery about 1870, a kinder, gentler Soviet Union without the gulags, Hitler in his dotage dismantling Auschwitz, or Tojo in the 1950s turning his old zeal to flooding the Co-Prosperity Sphere with cars and radios. While the helots swore at the tug, Chion pulled and smiled—this rowing was far easier than the olive press handle on Helikon. These waves gave way to his strength in a way the stone smasher never did. And what better way to rock up his muscles to meet Antikrates and smash his throat with his good hand? All of hoplites still were asleep on the outrigging, just now waking to the gentle surge of the ship. The winter sun was coming out in full. And the sea had already calmed a little with first light. Gastron hugged the north coast of Boiotia and would only cut out to the middle of the Gulf, when he spied Naupaktos on his right. “A good enough night calm and already half-way out—and now even quieter. Keep rowing and by nightfall we make our break at the mouth.” So he muttered to Ephoros as he at last sat down and left the way to the steerer. Then suddenly his tiller woke him up, “Hard to the coast! Turn into the north wind, turn now! Take in the full wind at our faces. Head to a port! Look at them, damned Korinthians. Six of them at least! Warships, faster than ours. They’re pulling our way. Look, look at them, all good long ships and full crews! Right, right, we go. Head for shore. Outrun them. To Delphi. Row to the peaks of Parnassos!” The Theoris made a hard turn, and had a head start of maybe 20 stades, maybe more. Ephoros in his trance about the great march kept on writing on the outrigging. But despite the winter haze and the morning glare Chion already could see on the shore a few Phokians watching their race. And the six triremes were now closing the distance. Would they catch the Theoris before shore? Or dare to beach and fight on hostile ground? Gastron now was up and stalked the deck. He slapped the tiller hard, and then grabbed the necks of the hoplites and threw them onto the empty top benches. “Row fools! Hand them up oars, down there. I have ten or so in the hold. All of you row, row you boy-butt Ephoros and greybeard Alkidamas. Pull hard or you won’t have any scrolls left to write on. Give me some wood and I’ll balance out you slave. Between Chion and I we have two arms still and can outdo you all.” The epibatai now pulled with the rest. Ever so slowly the Theoris surged toward land on the northern Gulf. There was now a mob forming at Kirrha, the port of Delphi, all screaming for the helot ship to speed up. About three hundred or so in armor, and they knelt on one knee with shields and spears, waiting to attack if the Korinthians beached. Some bowmen took aim to pick off their rowers if they neared the Theoris. But then suddenly the pursuers veered off, about two stades from shore. The crowd yelled and waved in the Theoris that slid onto the beach. “Look! Ide, philoi mou, ide!” Gastron yelled. Another four triremes were joining the six. So ten enemy ships were now circling well out of bowshot, crisscrossing across the morning whitecaps in turn to keep the Theoris beached and off the Gulf, as they relayed in and out from the bay far away at Perachora. “Well, old man we made it half way, at least. Though I bet we could have hiked as far on land as we made by seas. But that may be the end of our voyage, if these damned Korinthians decide to patrol in turn, five or so at sea, five or so being replaced by fresh ships from over at Korinth. All on the orders of the lame king and Lichas. For now, we stay put here, and eat—until we get a winter storm that sinks them. “I fear it, Gastron”, Alkidamas screamed over the surf. “Yes, safe for now—but trapped. And further from Ithomê than ever!” Comments (21)DrTJD :Webutante :Ahem, Victor, might I have a word with you? It's about fishing with your son....Certainly there's a bit of a generational thing between your wanting to keep your fish to lunch on and his desire to gingerly return his to their natural habitat. But it's not all generational. Because of our affluence, we, and I'm a few years older than you, no longer have to catch fish to live and so can enjoy the experience as sportsmen and women in the great outdoors. Many of us love it so much that we become stewards of the fishery and river habitat we fish. Where I fish in Wyoming every summer there's a native, wild fishery of the Snake River cutthroat that's under massive pressure from sport fishermen and so we rarely take fish during a day on the river. As a fly fishing guide in this native fishery, I only took clients who agreed to catch and release and, except for young teens, barbless hooks. It forces a skill level that you might never otherwise acheive. I would bet you and your son were not fishing a native fishery, but one that has a combination of rainbows and browns that are frequently stocked and so not under all that much pressure of extinction from people who are meat fishing, often with spinning rods. But I never turn down the opportunity to take a fish or two in the back country while camping or hiking, and relish it cooked over an open fire! In all events, enjoy your fishing with your son, and if you're fly fishing (and I would think it would be right up your alley) remember....tight lines! Tom Holsinger :Our daughters are very much alike. Mine graduated from Porter College at UC Santa Cruz last Saturday. SteveL :DrTJD asks whether deep-seated psychological motives may be operating that drive young men to jihadism. He is undoubtedly right, and the evidence we have seen suggests those motives are sexual. This was part of Sayyid Qutb's actual writing about America: "They danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire...The American girl is well acquainted with her body's seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs -- and she shows all this and does not hide it." Over and over, Qutb warns Muslim men about those alluring seductive American temptresses [his word] trying to seduce them. Some Muslim scholars believe that Sayyid Qutb died a virgin, never having had a sexual relationship in his life. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure him out. Radical Islam makes this much worse by promoting total segregation of the sexes. And many writers and psychologists, from Wilhelm Reich to George Orwell, have noted how sexual deprivation which leads to sexual frustration can then be sublimated and channeled--into political violence. And this won't be fixed until the Muslim world comes to grips with female equality and sexual liberation. bee :What? "I don’t think the Democratic Party will ever govern successfully until it does to its crazed extreme Left what the Republicans once did to the wacko far right." The republican party has historically been the "less and later" democrat party or the "country club people's" party. They have NEVER brought an idea to the conversation. It has always been the conservatives and libertarians who have provided the intellectual and moral capital to the republican party. The current performance of the congress and president represents the republican party devoid of its conservative and libertarian intellectual and moral elements. They have behaved like a bunch of self indulging tax and spenders. If you have been paying any attention to the polls you would have noticed that the republicans are under siege. They are falling apart as we speak. Your comparison of the republican and democratic parties reflects a limited understanding of both parties. The issues confronting the democratic party is that it has always tried to grow by adding one more special interest. They have always allowed them to voice. In the past this was more easily controlled by the party. Today there is no means of controlling all the voices given media availability. Access added to the need to sell news by the media translates into extremism. H. Short :I quit hunting after I came back from Vietnam. It had to do with gaining a certain level of empathy for other living beings after being at the receiving end for a change. I'd grown up with a rifle or shotgun in my hand but had never really been a big game hunter, for the few times I'd looked down a barrel at a deer I'd looked in their eyes and that was the end of that, I've always been a little soft I guess. But I spent lots of time in the sage brush country hunting rabbits, quail, pheasant, and whatever varmint happened along. I also loved to fish, but the visceral excitement didn't quite measure up to that of hunting. However, after Vietnam I concentrated on fishing, which was actually just a good excuse to get away up into the mountains, and patted myself on the back that I could always let them go and for the most part did. I was breaking off the barbs back in the sixties, but I enjoy eating fresh caught trout, and fishing wasn't a cause, it was a part of life. A few years ago I was talking to a Buddhist friend of mine about this, and sort of unconsciously bragging I guess about how all this showed what a nice guy I must be. After I got done with my little spiel she looked at me rather seriously and told me that to kill something for eating was not necessarily wrong, but to inflict pain on another living being for your own pleasure was. I still love to fish, but I don't view it the same as I did. I guess in regards to stewardship I'd have to say that our first responsibility is to be stewards of our own souls, and to do the best we can, but don't ever supposed you know it all. Miracle Max :"Collate what Sens. Boxer, Durban, Kennedy, Reid, or Howard Dean, or the Hollywood elite have said since 9/11 and you can see the practical problem in contemporary liberalism: anywhere, at any time, a Democratic liberal is apt to slur the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, declare a war lost even as it is being fought, praise a dictator, travel to a police state to conduct freelance diplomacy, or—Jimmy Carter like—compliment terrorists and killers." It is easy to cite Republicans who are guilty of each of these sins. Colm Conneely :Fishing for sport and fishing to earn a livelyhood are just two completely different mindsets. With wealth and affluence, we have the time to enjoy nature and animals. This is not true for people who need to basically eat or make a living. Izaac Walton is probably the father of sport angling and he lived a long time ago - but he was wealthy and he had the time and the idleness necessary to pursue his sport or hobby and write his treatise. My father was born on the water fishing from Inisheer, Aran. I've been out on curraghs fishing with my dad and uncles and it is very very scary in heavy seas - but this is how they put food on the table - fertilized fields, etc. - and they knew every fish in the ocean - in fact he was the first person to tell me that a rainbow trout was a salmon when I was a kid and he explained to me why. Someone like my Dad simply does not understand sport fishing. About a week ago, I was in Yosemite, and I followed the Merced River - I was looking for trout just as the river leaves the park. I was patient and quiet and I eventually saw several. I could not help but think what my Dad would do. He would not have expensive fly rods and carefully wrapped flies - he would splice together some sort of jig or net and he would catch these things to eat - and he would succeed - that was his joy. linda s :Your fishing experience reminds me of a recent dinner with friends , (mostly but not all greek immigrants by the way as i am married to one)where a woman wouldn't eat some of the food being served as it was wild turkey shot by the host but was willing to eat meat from another dish because it was store bought. Since the conversation prior had been about the environment I suggested that eating the hunted meat since not an endangered species was actually more ecologically sound than meat raised on a farm with pesticide sprayed grain as it's main source of food. The anti hunting lobby at the table looked at me blankly. some people just can't relate that if you eat meat something has to die. I prefer that it lived well first. Jack Marcotte :Going fishing with gaps This reminds me of a joke or story if you will. It was about an American trying to commune with nature through contemplation and the opening of his mind to the wonders of nature. He had traveled to Tibet--he had heard that the Tibetan priest's had developed "skills" that if he could "learn" would resolve what he thought was his lack of "oneness" with the "world"-- he wanted to be sensitive to all things. He was sitting on his prayer rug in contemplation, in deep and quiet thought--not moving. Another American, a "tourist" and business man passed him by and noticed that the "monk" setting under the tree on his prayer rug was an American. The American tourist, a friendly and curious man stopped and spoke and asked what the monk was doing there? The "monk" of course told his tale. "I am trying to become one with nature so I can "commune" with all things in the natural world." "To do this great thing is why I an here". "So I can be all knowing, so that I will know what the animals know and be able to "talk" with them. It is a beautiful thing and it will benefit all mankind". The tourist had been walking all morning, it was hot, and talking to the "monk" in the shade was comfortable, and he was in no hurry So he told the monk how once upon a time a fish saved his life. The monk was amazed he had been trying to "talk" with the animals for years without success and here was a "tourist" whose life was saved by a fish. He was amazed and begged the tourist to tell him the full story so he could savor in it and continue on his quest. The American tourist was a little reluctant but after the Monk begged for the details told him the following story. I was in Vietnam fighting the communists. They over ran our position, a mortar round hit near me and wounded me and covered me with debris. When I came to everyone had gone except for the dead. I did not even know what day or time it was they, the communists had taken my watch.---they thought I was dead. I made it into the Jungle and soon was delirious and about ready to die from starvation and was running a fever and not thinking clearly. I fell into this stream and that is when I saw this strange looking fish. I had never seen anything like it before. It was amazing to me. By this time the monk was beside him self and David Thomson :"A neighbor used to preach to us that Caesar Chavez was employed by the KGB, and that the UFW was controlled by Moscow." The radical right exaggerated the direct influence of the Soviet Communists. Still, the Cesar Chavez movement was motivated by a radical leftist desire to destroy our capitalist economic system. There is little doubt but that some of the members did indeed take their orders from Moscow. Did Chavez and his followers cause more harm than good? Were most farm workers ultimately helped---or did they become permanent victims useful to the great socialist crusade? Herschel Smith :Thanks for another good commentary Professor Hanson. Four versus nine is buried in the statistics. You'll do better next time. Jesus fished, and made it possible for others to do so. You're in good company. Your son? If he were a bit more hungry, his fish would have made a good meal. Trout, fries, slaw and ice cold beer ... my mouth is watering now. Dave Begley :I read about this guy Sayyid Qutb in Lawrence Wright's "The Looming Tower." Turns out part of what radicalized him was attending University of Northern Colorado in Greely in the 1950s. He thought it was too wild and horrible. How weird is that? Wasiteria :My son and daughter are very much like yours as well. Except, right now, they're not fishing for trout or taking out the recycling. You see, they are avid readers of yours, and they believed your alarm that we are in the midst of an existential crisis that can only be solved by having a war in Iraq. They are over serving in Iraq right now, probably reading on the internet your thoughtful tale of the good times you have with your son and daughter. Obviously, you have not impressed your children as much with the true nature of the threat to our civilization, or they would be over there. Unless, perhaps, you are not as serious about the threat as you have said. Sounds like the fishing was good, though. left said fred :"I don't think the Democratic Party will govern successfully until it does. . . .what the Republican Party once did to the wacko far right." Are you serious? The "wacko far right" of old is largely in control of the conservative movement/Republican Party today. Take the old targets and substitute "commies" for "Muslims" regardless of their political persuasion, and you get the drift. It's certainly in control of conservative talk radio (Savage, Boortz, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc.), as recognized by traditional conservatives (Lott), as the "intellectual" apparatus is run by neocons (the Kagans, Kristol, Podhoretz), as recognized by traditional conservatives (Buckley). You're part of the problem if you align yourself with the new "wacko far right." Operation Yellow Elephant :Mr. Hanson- Is your 24-year-old son eligible to serve in our military [basically, healthy and heterosexual]? If so, have you encouraged him at least to consider volunteering for military service in our nation's time of need, even if he plans another career later in life? We welcome your comment. Thank you. Ponsoby Britt :Wait...you have a 24-year old son???? Can you please explain to me why he has not enlisted in this conflict that you are so passionate about? Come to think of it, I have noticed most of loudest voices supporting this war, from Bush, Cheney, Lieberman all the way down, all have children who are militarily eligible who have not signed up. I dont believe in coincidences, and there seems to be a thread running through here. Of all people, as a military historian, you know that war requires tremendous personal sacrifice. And that includes your kin. If this is supposedly one of the most important situations of our lifetime, why are so many of the loudest of the hawk not imparting these ideas of sacrifice and serving Will Young :Well stated, as always. As a member of the younger generation, I might add that a few of us still eat what we catch (provided we catch anything at all). Bling Boy :Dude, you are such an asshat! Will Young :Mr. Hanson, I'd like to remind you that if you have children, you cannot support a war in which they are not a participant. I mean, you might be able to think quietly to yourself that the war might be a good thing in the long run, but you can't say that out loud. So remember, if you want to comment in public in support of a war, make sure you make your kids enlist in the military - after all, they aren't adults who can make their own decisions, but children who's service records will bear directly on the validity of your opinions. Sadly, I was unable to enlist in the military due to a leg injury - now my parents are forced to pass the nights in silence, afraid to speak out in support of a war they cannot give a child to. Seriously, can we stop this please? The only way your opinion counts is if you have a child serving in Iraq? And even then you must express your dismay at the war and plead for the children to be brought home immediately - otherwise, you're just another right wing gun nut Christofacist who would see his children dead just to destroy Islam. A cheap way to attack a person's ideas without actually having to come up with any of your own. Depressing how common this is becoming... Katherine Lynn :SteveL brings up an interesting point in regards to the deleterious effect that the segregation of men and women in Islamic society may have played in the rise of radical Islamic fundamentalism. I am currently reading Shmuly Boteach's book Hating Women. Boteach goes so far as to say that the segregation and dismissal of women in Islamic society has been a major cause of bloodthirsty radicalization in the Middle East. He blames the lack of femininity's civilizing force on the surge of typically male aggression. Of course, Boteach does not absolve the West of its destruction of traditional femininity and the view that women are not merely men's equals but also are unique and constitution and aptitudes. However, he sees the radicalism of the Middle East as the logical outcome of a culture which has denied women a voice in politics and society. Finally, I must make a small request: I would love to know whether you've been following the early Presidential debates (or drive-by interrogations, as the candidates complain) and to know what you think of the candidates. I must admit a personal weakness for the personality and resolve of Rudy Giuliani, but I would like to hear your assessment of the individuals who are seeking the Presidency. Comments have been archived for this page. |
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Thank you for your interesting blog entries. They are truly though-provoking and often lead me to further reading and greater understanding of related topics.
As to your points in the 'Gazitis" section, I agree with your analysis. Furthermore, however, at a finer level of granularity, what are the petty personal tragedies of these men of privileged birth? What humiliation might have young bin Laden experienced as one of, reportedly, 55 children. Could he have enjoyed a father's proud gaze? What effect might a mother's harem status have on a young boy? Could such or similar insults lie behind bin Laden's pique when Saudi Arabia spurned his offered assistance and, instead, turned to the U.S. to defend itself against the raging Hussein?
Jun 21, 2007 08:35 PM