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September 2006
Elsewhere on the WebVictor Davis Hanson’s Private Papers Victor Davis Hanson Archive on National Review OnlineTour Books
A War Like No Other How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War
by Victor Hanson
Amazon.com’s Best of 2001 Many theories have been offered regarding why Western culture has spread so successfully across the world, with arguments ranging from genetics to superior technology to the creation of enlightened economic, moral, and political systems. In Carnage and Culture, military historian Victor Hanson takes all of these factors into account in making a bold, and sure to be controversial, argument: Westerners are more effective killers.
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson, John Keegan Hanson, for those who somehow have missed him until now, is a professor of Classics at California State and also is a part time farmer, both of which have contributed to his writing as a military historian. As a classicist, Hanson is well versed in the sources in their original Greek, and as a farmer he understands how agriculture affected the experience of the Greeks at war.
by Victor Davis Hanson
by Victor Davis Hanson
Hanson relates the life stories of his farmer neighbors, writing that their way of life will likely soon disappear, thanks in part to a federal system of agricultural subsidies that favors large-scale, industrial farm corporations over individual “yeomen.” This is a sobering and eye-opening book. by Victor Davis Hanson On first glance, The Soul of Battle appears to be three different books: biographies of two well-known generals—Sherman and Patton—and one who is virtually unknown today, the ancient Greek leader Epaminondas. Yet Victor Davis Hanson, a classics professor and author of The Western Way of War, makes a compelling connection between these three men. They were “eccentrics, considered unbalanced or worse by their own superiors” who led democratic armies on missions of freedom.
by Robert B. Strassler (Editor), Victor Davis Hanson (Introduction)
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September 19, 2006 1:31 PM
Drawing the Line? It has been a parlor game of sorts to guess when—but even more so if—the Europeans (Britain included) will sigh, “Enough is enough,” and so get tough with both their own unassimilated angry Muslim minorities and the radical Islamic world at large. There will never be liberal values in the Middle East, no change, no future—as there would not have been in Hitler’s Germany, as there is not today in Cuba or North Korea—without the defeat of Islamic fascism, in its latest Islamic incarnation, as an ideological force. The latter always proves more frightening than any caricature, the proverbial wild teenager who starts throwing things when told that his room is a bit messy. The riots in France, murders in Holland, cartoon fiasco in Denmark, bombings in London and Madrid, foiled plots in Germany and Spain, and now the Pope threats—will Europe insidiously bleed from a thousand nicks or take action and call fascists fascists? And yet what would such spine-strengthening look like? Closer, albeit still stealthy, ties with the U.S effort? More defense spending? Demands for assimilation or else? More moderate and right-center governments? An end to the EU politically-correct maternalism? An honest foreign policy with the Middle East? A new appreciation for Israel’s woes? Who knows? But one thing is rather frightening: the political pendulum in Europe always swings much more widely and quickly than here. Unless these legitimate worries about radical Islam are addressed by EU politicians, a frustrated public—note the recent elections in Germany—will address them on their own in ways that are historically scary in their own right. When I go to Europe, I am always struck how at odds the average European’s talk is from what one reads in the newspaper or hears on the television. That degree of frustration and cynicism will only get worse unless there is some honest talk about the dangers Europe faces. In the most recent post, I praised some brave writers, military personnel, the President and a very few others. But, of course, there are millions of Americans that have no tolerance for appeasement. Each day just as candidly they speak out, write, or blog in defense of our old customs and values—in between long hours on the job keeping this country and much of the world running. I shouldn’t have slighted them by not making explicit reference to their critical role, because in truth I try to read their thoughts in the letters sections of the papers, comments on the web (including every posting in response to this column that prompted this acknowledgment of the error of omission of my part), and emails. Whom To Fear? There is an American Street that is a far more powerful, and a more responsible force than any such populace in the Arab world. Like many of you, I tire of hearing “Death to America” from the mobs in Teheran or Jericho, and am sick of the usual coffee-house Middle Eastern hack intellectual that CNN drags out from London, who, during the past 5 years, in his condescension and pompous diction, and in the safety of a host Western humane society, starts listing various perceived grievances against the West, and then issues warnings (!) about the furor of the temperamental “Arab Street.” I respect and fear the American version far more, because its anger is fueled by reason and is slow and steady and furious when released. The world should not worry when the half-educated, fueled by zealotry and nursed on conspiracy theory, starts chanting; but it should when a rational and patient American slowly fumes and decides he has had it with the Iranian “President”, Hezbollah’s fascism, the various thugs on the West Bank, the Sunni Triangle’s murderers, the primordial of the Hindu Kush, or some subsidized dictator in Pakistan or Egypt lecturing us. So A Note to the Middle East Indeed, nothing has been stranger to see Bush, Rice, and company be ridiculed by both the Left and the Right here at home for the hard task of pressuring Cairo, Damascus, and the Gulf, while spending billions in treasure and thousands of lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, to offer an alternative other than strongmen or mullahs—and get absolutely no support from the Arab “reformers,” either because of fear, or utopian perfectionism about the nature of foreign intervention, or the old religion of anti-Americanism. Perpetual Victimhood This was the one recent chance when the United States backed its lofty rhetoric with real sacrifice in the Middle East—but so far the moment is passing and will be replaced by something far worse if it fails. Just remember, should democratization falter, none of us will ever worry much about the cries for reform and democracy from a then truly whiny Arab dissident population, who flees to the West to damn the West for not doing what they themselves, in the manner of our own Founding Fathers, should have done long ago on their own. Nothing to the American character is more grating than perpetual scapegoating for self-induced pathologies, along with constant whining and victimization—and nowhere is that syndrome more common than in the radical Islamic Middle East. Comments (45)Mark Wilson :John in Cincinnati :I don't think much can be expected of Europe. They spent the Cold War laying low and hoping not to be noticed, and they're going to spend this war the same way. London, Madrid, French riots, etc., haven't dissed their illusions. I think the earliest, and (therefore?) most important mistake that Bush made in the war was just after the 9/11 attacks. He was asked what Americans could do to help fight the enemy, and he basically told us to go out and do some extra shopping for the economy. Henry the Fifth's pep talk, that ain't. Hell, I could imagine a President Gore saying something that foolish. Europe is behaving toward America the way President Bush asked us to behave toward our government. Brian Howell :It seems you have your finger squarely on the American pulse. I pray for progress while the opportunity remains. exhelodrvr :Great, until the last paragraph.
I'm not sure how you can say that with the whole culture of victimology that has been put on us by many on the left. This has fed into the problem we currently have in dealing with the Islamic threat appropriately. DRF :In Soul Of Battle you make the case Mike H. :exhelodrvr, we sat silent while they dropped that load of garbage on us, now is the time to start changing things. I unfortunately have two lefties representing me in the senate, one of them is up for election, I explained to her that my vote comes at a price -- get behind the president. She didn't pick up the hint. What I'm trying to say is that we're in charge only if we excercise our authority. If others in my state see the world as I do she's history. Vishnu Vyas :But america hasn't gone the whole nine yards to make democracy truly successful. It has replaced an old tyranical regime with another regime which is sectarian and trynical. Its still not western in nature, as none of the ideals of secularism or liberty has been introduced in the constitutions. This is not what america did to japan during the american occupation. Such a half baked attempt to mix an archaic ideology with democracy is bound to fail. EvilDave :Not so much of a comment as a request.
Tom Wall :Extremely clear eyed reasoning Mr. Hanson. I think free people everywhere are getting a belly full of Muslim rage. The Muslims themselves are outing their own, and eliminating any doubts as to the violence inherent to their religion. Multi-culturism and political correctness has, and will continue, to make hash out of free thinking liberal societies in due time. I think it's effect is being felt and recognized but they must tack fast or onto the shoals they go. I get the feeling Europe is playing a waiting game. Hoping somehow things will calm down by some magical force. Or maybe waiting for someone in charge with a set of brass ones to lead the charge. They don't have that. Matter of fact the US appears at times to have only one. The same cautions could be applied to the US. We are different because of assimilation but without a steady conservative hand this will spin off to Lord know where. Donald R.McClarey :Good point on how European governments are often not very reflective of the opinons of their populations. Their systems of multiple party representation usually encourage this, as does the fact that most European countries pay much more deference to elite opinion than occurs in America. I think governments in Europe will change after some great terrorist event with huge loss of life, and some of the reaction, inevitable base upon European history, will be extreme by American standards. Improbulus Maximus :Exhelodrvr, your point is valid, but that which you so perfectly described as the "culture of victimology" is antithetical to the American character, and so though you might have slightly missed Dr. Hanson's point, you perfectly understand it. For most of the 20th century, and all of this century so far, we have been under constant attack from the combined forces of world socialism, which sought to weaken our culture and society. They did this through various means, such as the counterculture revolution, the sexual revolution, etc., but all with the purpose of weakening us to the point that we couldn't fight back. igout :In one of his books on WW2 John Lucaks commented that in 1938 the European street, at least the good side of it, was far ahead of their elites. People felt in their bones that war with Hitler was coming, and far from protesting or denying it, wanted to get it over with. Perhaps we'll be seeing the same phenomenon soon now. Beagle :Vishnu Vays has a grasp of actual American values, unlike our elected leaders. For one thing, we're not, strictly speaking, a democracy. The Founders feared tyrrany of the majority as much as any other tyrrany. Limited government and liberty are the twin pillars of The Republic. It's nice to see you at PJM, Prof. Hanson. I wonder how long we'll wait for a new breed of politician to take advantage of the American Street? BNeville :A comment by a reader on the Steve Sailer site has been burned in my brain since I read it: "Thus the Arab way of war is essentially opportunist where the western way of war is exterminationist... [John Keegan] was very pessimistic about the current situation more or less concluding that Arab terrorists will eventually use nuclear weapons against western targets, that would however reap a terrible revenge for which the neither the terrorists or their popular supporters have yet any glimmer of understanding..." From Caesar in Gaul to the present day, one thing the west does well is extermination. The so-called moderate Moslems better start clamping down on their lunatic fringe, if only for their own self-preservation patrick neid :Europe is following their time honored past of doing nothing until it's to late. this leaves them with the solution they have always chosen, every century, over the last thousand years--a pogrom/war of sorts. each time a different group, idea or country all ending up in total war. it's coming again.....this time they may lose. Mr. K :..no tolerance for appeasement? I wonder how many Americans think like I do...we should pull out and nuke Mecca, and move on from there...a nuke for Tehran, Damascus, with a pause between each boom to ask, where's your jihad now? G.Traynor :To Dr. Hanson and BNeville: Even here in the belly of the beast (Bay Area), I cannot predict the reaction in the event of a WMD event in the U.S. If I were in the Middle East I would be afraid, very afraid. Barnaby :Prof. Hanson, Following September 11th, I went in search of News and Analysis. Much of what I read implied that the United States deserved that attack. I recoiled from that thought and continued searching the Internet for information. Your writings in National Review are directly responsible for waking me from my unreasoned and emotional support for anti-American and anti-Western policies that I had never thought deeply about. You have changed my life and caused me to begin educating myself on our Western culture and history. Thank you. Barnaby Andrea in NY :This latest incident with the Pope seems to have unleashed an anger I hadn't seen before. Couple that with the reaction to Chavez at the UN and perhaps we're getting somewhere. I hope the US sleeping giant awakens soon. trainer :I’m certainly not prescient, and while conservative I’m not especially hawkish...but even I have recognized the response of Europe to these problems. They wait too long and over-react too far. I think we are two decades overdue for a reaction by the American Street, but I lay that loss at the feet of the media. The advent of conservative radio and Internet over the past decade give people an alternative source of information, and that is making a difference. We see that we are reliving the 30’s, and only disagree on the year. Oh, and I can’t see Europe losing if they choose to fight. They can only lose by giving up. Islam is a culture that hasn’t come up with a new idea since they stole the concept of “zero” from the Indians in 830ce…and five decades of peace and love isn’t going to change 1000 years of bloody European history. Europe is the canary in the coal mine. We need to watch and learn from their mistakes. If they snap as they usually do, it’s going to get bloody. Kate :I'm not sure the Europeans will swing faster but when they do get decide to change I do think they will only swing from International Socialism to National Socialism. Whitehall :I've long feared that the final European outcome would be a modern, anti-Muslim version of St. Bartholomew's Day massacre. The longer the elites hold to a vision at odds with the understood reality of the people, the greater and more traumatic the eventual adjustment. Improbulus Maximus :To those who think that our response to a nuclear device would have anything at all to do with attacking any part of Saudi Arabia, I have sad news for you; it will never happen. Almost every politician and bureaucrat in Washington is on the Saudis' payroll, and essentially work for them, not us. If you haven't read Robert Baer's books, then you probably have no idea how our government has prosituted itself out to the Saudis; they are completely bought and paid for. When the inevitable happens, we may be looking at a second American Revolution. God willing. Daniel Remler :How refreshing to be able to come here and listen to Victor Hanson -- that uniquely American product -- be able to talk "behind closed doors" as it were (I wonder how long before this site is more broadly discovered... sigh). Of course reading Hanson's more formal prose at VDH.com has always been a wonderful experience -- not to mention depressing as my father and I always bemoan the fact that we cannot write as well. But here Hanson's prose is more informal. Indeed, here at what I take is Hanson's first blog we get spelled-out all the things which were only hinted at before. For a longtime reader such as myself, it's exciting really. It's also reassuring -- especially as a fiercely pro-Israeli Jew -- to find Hanson seeming to become a bit more openly appreciative of Israel and all her travails. I could be wrong but I think her standing is growing in his mind. If so, how lucky we are! On this very cool last-night-of-summer here at America's first permanent English colony, I look forward to an autumn where, even if things continue to disintegrate and we witness the birth of a new global fascism, we at least have a quiet place to come talk about it among friends. Stephen Ogden :Dear Dr. Hanson: I have read from, have admiration for, and benefited from your writings. You complement Wendell Berry, whom I earlier loved, fruitfully for me. Hesitently, then, I state that my joy would be the more complete were you less easily dimissive of Britain. Paraphrasing one of Mr. Rumsfeld's only slightly sub-Churchillian delightful rhetorical pieces, one must go to war with the allies that one has, not the allies one wishes one had. Dr. Stephen A. Ogden Gary Campbell :Prof. Hanson, Your comments on the internet are a wonder... such clarity, such cogency and power. I studied Classics many years ago at Brown and Cornell and maybe that is part of the appeal of your writing. I need to read your books. geoffb :I think the left, especially in Europe, but here also views the Islamic radicals as a tool they can use to topple the western nations to bring about their beloved "Global Socialist State". A global EU. They think/feel that they can easily control them after they are in charge. They may be right as the left has never had moral scruples when defending itself, only when asked to defend "Western values". The Islamic radicals view the left as "useful idiots" who will be conquered and converted or enslaved when they achieve their victory over all that is not Islam. Since they have Allah on their side they have no thought of losing. They may be right also as they have managed to place an Army in Europe without having to fire a shot. The next few years in Europe will determine how this war will proceed. The speech by the Pope was a shot across the bow to help the common people of Europe and the World wake up to their peril. I do pray that this nightmare is one we all awaken from alive and well. Curt M. :Professor Hanson, Thank you for your usual excellent insight on this topic. I spent a year living with a Muslim family in Turkey, albeit some time ago, but I believe my perceptions are still accurate. The Arab mentality in general lags behind the West by centuries. No secret here. My experiences demonstrated to me a people of miniscule self-esteem, driven by hate and jealousy toward anyone living more abundantly than themselves. Having little or nothing, it is always the fault of others, since their pride could never allow them to take an honest appraisal of themselves in the mirror. Pride is the overriding emotion among Arabic males, in my opinion, and drives them to commit any and all manner of destructive acts in an attempt to assuage it. It is not of their collective nature to lift themselves to greater heights of abundance, freedom or civilized behavior. History shows this most clearly. Only Kemal Attaturk raised his country above the Arabic norm, and had to drag the Turks into the twentieth century kicking and screaming. After all the intervening years this elevation still teeters on a precipace. For those who have never spent any considerable amount of time living in the Middle East, they can not even begin to imagine the vast cultural divisions between us. It is my belief that there is probably no middle ground between the two cultures. I believe the chasm to be insurmountable. The main source of pride being experienced by arabic males today lies in pretending that they are destroying "the Great Satan". Of course we know this to be insanity on their part. Only an imbecile would be foolhearty enough to believe that they would be allowed to intrude on us past a certain point. Unfortunately, they have plenty of those in stock. I believe that we have been this tolerant this long because we know how easy it would be to annihilate them back into the desert should we be forced to. Kind of like beating up some little homicidal handicapped child. Do they really think that we fear them? That is the most dangerous and stupid supposition they could possibly entertain. Certainly we are wary of them and their potential to cause damage. But actually fear them? No. Perhaps they take stock in the loudmouths, lunatics and leftist blather that is part and parcel of our free society. It's hard not to miss it. but woe be unto them who believe that this is the majority of American sentiment. The next terrorist attack upon us will convince them otherwise. The "Arab Street" has never seen first-hand the terrible wrath America is capable of when the collective citizenry has finally had enough. We have displayed the awesome depths of ruthless vengence on foes far greater than they. World War II only ended a mere 60 years ago. We have not grown so urbane as to have lost the ability to fight and kill and punish mercilessly. And while I think about that, I can't believe that a theology that reveres it's shrines and artifacts so completely would so recklessly risk having them obliterated for the rest of time. If they think that they will be protected by others in the world community, think again. Should we be pushed past our limits, no third party, not the UN, not Russia, not China, not the EU nor even Venezuela will derail us from our purpose. If they think that they hold some magic trump card, meaning oil, as sufficient deterrant, think again. Pushed past our limits, we would not hesitate to take their fields away from them as recompense for their transgressions. If they think that we are somehow cowed by their incessant declarations of having 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, think again. Once enraged, we do not hesitate to take on any and all comers. These are a cowardly people. If they had any spine to them they would not abide being subjugated to such misery as they have allowed themselves to be in for so long. Once the real fight starts, they will be dropping their weapons and running for the hills. The only problem with that is that there are precious few hills for them to run to. But I believe the showdown in the sand is inevitable, no matter the good intentions and earnest endeavors currently being offered. Even if they are bringing a Scimitar to a gun fight. Ray Elliott :"Absolutely no support from Arab reformers--from fear or?". It is fear. The usual radio, television and printed page is controlled by the Imans, and a newspaper that would print your comments Dr. Davis, would be burned to the ground by morning. I once believed that the Arab media was controlled by their politicians, however; I have since arrived at the conclusion that the Imans control the politicians. It seems relatively easy for the Imans to create a frenzy quickly that could kill a politician before he could explain himself. Steven in STL :Mr. Hanson: Thank you so much for your insight. You are a clear voice of reason in a noisy world. I am one of the citizen journalists you refer to and seldom a week goes by that one of my letters to the editor is not in one of the three local papers. I pour my passion and love for my homeland into my letters and if I change just one mind per letter it will have been worth the hours I spend on each one. Kevin in Rochester, MN :Professor Hanson, As for Europe, it's become involved in a crusade whether desired or not. Michael Devereaux :Wonderful site! This is my first visit. I've bookmarked it now. I believe there is truth to the claim that Americans cannot easily support our efforts in the Middle East because the resulting cultures don't appear to be aligned with our principles. If we're going to topple tyrants through military invasion, fine. However, I believe our military efforts must have BINDING goals that we unflinchingly enforce: - The emancipation of women. The government must free its women from bondage as second-class citizens. A woman can leave her home only accompanied by a male relative? And this is allowed anywhere within Afghanistan or Iraq? Puh-leeze. Neither of these principles is in effect in our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan - beyond the freedom of women to vote, which is a great start. Americans can't easily support some of the things we are seeing in the "new" realities in these countries. We instinctively want to throw up our hands, saying, "Pah! A pox on both your countries!" That makes the crucial support for both of these wars harder to sustain. Pro Cynic :Evil Dave, It's not quite what you were looking for, but last night I did a post discussing the Pope's (IMHO) curious use of Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologos' quote that caused so much controversy. I don't know that your analogy is spot on, but I note some points for comparison. [procynic.blogspot.com/2006/09/wa...] Bruce Wechsler :
I also recommend to all here your piece "The Tortoise and Those Democratic Hares" (which can be found at RealClearPolitics.com. This is the VDH that helps keep me aloft and reminds me that I am not insane. Thank you Victor. Bruce gringoman :Right on, but as for Georgie ("It's a religion of peace") Bush, might he find a moment to dip into Dante Alighieri and something he might not have gotten in MBA studies? If he's really pressed for time, I can reccommend a concise offering now at gringoman: MAHOMET IN HELL ROA :I think what is most likely to happen is that Europeans will dig out their old “Better Red than Dead” signs and update them to “Better Dhimmi than Dead” patrick neid :Curt M, well said........when i borrow it, i will always let them know where and from whom i took it.
bbatson :What a great piece. I've lived in Eastern Europe for the past five years and let me tell you, the people are blind to the threat that is upon them. Many joke that the people of Eastern Europe care more about the price of milk than anything else. I understand the lifestyle they want to live -- peaceful, beer drinking, picking mushrooms, weekends at the cottage. But they are living in a fantasyland if they think the threat of radical Islam isn't on the way to their backyard. But one thing I saw gave me hope. When the U.S. decided to remove Saddam from power, there were a few protests here (Prague). Of course they were organized by the typical self-hating Americans, addicted to victimhood and incapable of real debate. The funny thing is, very few Europeans even joined in the marches. Most said that while they aren't for the war, they aren't pacifists either. So it was just a couple hundred Americans, screaming and shouting and holding anti-Bush signs, while the Europeans stood by and shopped and went about their business! josh :"The world should not worry when the half-educated, fueled by zealotry and nursed on conspiracy theory, starts chanting..." A pretty good description of the American Street, you ask me. Jason :Sir, Improbulus Maximus :I've been thinking a lot lately about pre-Rennaisance Europe, meaning the years of the Black Death, during which it seemed that the grace of Heaven was withdrawn from mankind, and the gates of Hell flung wide; when fear and the stench of death hung heavy across the land, and the end of the world seemed near. Now there is a new plague raging across the globe, and many would have us accept our doom, but I am looking forward to the Second Renaissance; I only wonder if a third or the world's population must die to bring it about? Benjamin :I loved your article. It is refreshing in that your commentary goes beyond the usual partison bashing. You are somewhat more optomistic than I am.
Meanwhile, with our open borders, the Jihadists don't even need a Trojan Horse. They keep coming, and coming, and are probably already in position awaiting orders. While we are in total self apology, whining because they "just don't understand what 'good people' we are", they'll attack. We'll all be watching American Idol, and by the time we even get to the window to see what happened, it will be all over. I only wish Pelosi and company were authentic in their condemnation of Chavez's antics, but it's all posturing. Our leaders are all for sale. L Nettles :I've wished for some time for a RSS feed for your website, now I have my wish. Dave Begley - Omaha :VDH is one of my favorite writers because of his insight and clear style. I just love that idea of "The American Street." Somewhat similar to the "Silent Majority." It exists and it is fed up with all this crap. Link is to my humble effort in the Omaha World-Herald on 9-10-06. I cite VDH from "A War Like No Other" (great book!) and Chris Buckley's "Florence of Arabia" (also great and funny)." SEATTLE JOHN :THE EPIC: IT'S NOT A WORLD WAR IT'S NOT A WORLD WAR, UNLESS AS BEFORE, Comments have been archived for this page. |
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Prof. Hanson.
Thanks for the continued clarity on world events.
I watched you debate a Prof. Edsforth (sp?) here in Massachusetts about 2 yrs. back and enjoyed what was my first experience of a live debate on a college campus.
Nothing to add but a thank you for all you do.
Sep 19, 2006 03:47 PM